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Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
109
   |
Posted - 2014.03.12 10:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.
It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.
BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.
You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.
Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others? |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 10:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others? Because veteran players have corporations that engage in certain activities. Noob training is not one of them. And as you mentioned, there are Corporations that serve exactly that purpose. That's why when you try to get a job they don't always handle your training. It's a system, nothing more. You don't have to take it personal.
On one hand, you'll say new players can be a huge asset. People will list multiple ways a new player can have an impact. Yet all the corporations have minimum skill point requirements in the multi millions. The answer is to join one of the established new player helping corporations.
You say we're valuable, but then you show us we're not by not accepting us.
If you'll tell me that a new player should continue to play because he can influence and participate at any level, then why will they not be accpeting those new players?
So your words say "stick around", but your actions say "Your potential contribution isn't worth my time". |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 10:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alright cool thanks for the information.
The past month I'd been told repeatedly that as a new player, everyone has a use.
But apparently that's not the case. There have been multiple explanations in this thread alone as to why people don't want to waste their time with new people, so I guess it's understandable if new people decide it's not worth wasting their time for people who don't want to reciprocate.
Thanks for taking the time to answer! Much appreciated. |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
110
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 10:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Most people recommend new players to EVE-U and BNI because they know what they are doing, know how to get a new player started in game better than most other corps out there. A well established corp really doesn't want to take the time to train new players when they're working hard to maintain what they have got already. Why train your new players when someone can do it better than you can yourself?
It's like real life you know... you go to university before you get hired out by some big corp.
It's kind of funny how easily people in this game flip the switch between proper and improper real life comparisons |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.
So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?
Your words say, "have fun!", but your actions say "GTFO" |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 03:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Though I do appreciate you taking your time to explain your points of view, I'd appreciate it if you kept your statements along the lines of discussing the fact that veterans will state they want new players in game, then erect a minimum skill point wall to avoid having to interact with them.
I'm fairly certain leveraging personal insults towards me for simply stating a different point of view other than your own is against this forum's rules. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 03:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
People recommend BNI and RvB becasue they have a reputation for being fun corps where you can participate (as opposed to being sent out mining all day) with low skills.
Two major features of appeal this game advertises about itself are "meaningful pvp" and "huge persistent world".
While corporations such as BNI and EVE-U might be a fun learning experience, it also possess characteristics of a non-meaningful learning environment where losses are meaningless tools of learning. There's no stated, long lasting meaningful impact other than the potential acquisition of knowledge for the individual. It's almost like a theme park inside of the sandbox. Join these corporations and enjoy the "Space Ship Explosion" rollercoaster.
There's no political ramifications. It's a closed room where the effects do not reverberate outward, only within. If it's possible for a new player to join those corporations and enjoy the game from day 1, then due to being within the same game, it should also be possible for new players to join politically active corporations and also experience the feeling of contribution, a more meaningful sense of contribution because of it's impact.
If a new player is to believe when he's told a "hero tackle" frigate can be useful, well it's kind of hard to believe it when the majority of the game shows they do not want new players being a "hero tackle" frigate in their corporation through advertising minimum skill point requirements.
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Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 04:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well thanks for clarifying.
Being new you see the huge scope of the game and realize it will be hard to find a place to make the game feel meaningful through your contribution.
Then you ask people for direction and are told that you can make an impact from the beginning, get involved right away, one of the positives of the game not being level based.
But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful. I guess the only initial appeal of the game is suppose to be the novelty of flying space ships, and not the fact that game is advertised as a levelless FFA sandbox. That's suppose to hold you over for the year to reach the 15mil SP corporations so you can begin experiencing impact game play has on a "single shard" with player controlled politics and territory.
EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 04:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Medalyn Isis wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.
So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. You seem to be looking for a one word answer which sums up the opinion of the entire community, although do you not realise that this is a silly and naive way of thinking? Just like in real life many people who play eve will give you different answers and have differing opinions. Also you didn't answer the previous question I asked in my last post. What exactly are you looking for? Don't bother. Shortly after I posted my little wall of text I realized who OP was, and regretted posting. Look through his posting history. It's nothing but "I'm supposedly a newbie, but act as a bittervet, I hate this game, and I hate you all". That's Divine Entervention for you. Even better, check his killboard and it will rapidly become apparent what he actually is. Seriously, Divine: why do you keep pretending to be a noob in these troll threads of yours? Or if you are a noob, why not post with your main instead of your FW plexing bot alt?
Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was. Like I would take a completely unfitted merlin, park it at novice, small, medium, and even large defensive plexes and just rake in the LP. I tried doing it a few times with fitted ships, and it was either incredibly boring with nothing happening, or I'd get jumped and lose anyways.
Cost efficiency. I could unfit merlin park at a complex and alt tab and watch netflix. If I were to make a suggestion, I'd say CCP implement a minimum ship value requirement to capture plexes. Seriously, I'm sure some people were really put off by my extremely minimal wager after they exploded me and noticed their ammunition cost more than their reward for killing me.
I don't do FW anymore.
I just happen to not care about dying. I'm immortal, and being a noob it's expected I'm going to die alot, so I embrace it.
Yet you "vets" get super caught up in how things "look". Like you don't want a new player in your corporation because he will die alot and that will "look" bad. Like, you'll become embarassed to have someone in your corporation who dies alot. Because you care. You actually care what people think of you in an online environment where the entire premise is false. So much that you'll exclude people from your group who you feel will add more ammunition to be used in the assault on your ego's castle.
You might care about dying or how others perceive you. I don't.
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Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 05:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was. It's as valid a form of play as any other, so while farmers are given a lot of grief on the forum (they frustrate me at times too), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as your style of play if it provides you what you want. If others (including me at times) tear up about it, then your winning EvE on that point. From all your (difficult) threads, it's fairly clear that you have higher aims than being a farmer forever, so don't bother if someone knocks you for it. Laugh at them and hide the tissues.
It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot. But that doesn't happen. For every merlin I lost which was around 400k, I captured 3 sites averaging like 10 million, all while providing next to zero content.
I just couldn't do it anymore. I figured out how to be, and even was for a bit "that guy", but having been him, it's not what and who I want to be. Ultimately, I want to contribute to everyone's enjoyment, not just my own. Abusing FW LP farming, while entirely possible, should be avoided.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Exactly the same premise regarding people who choose to attack people in game to "harvest their tears". Being "that guy" makes you exactly that, "that guy".
I'm better than that. I'll make mistakes, sure. But upon learning them, I'll do my best to make sure I avoid it as much as possible.
A choice is a choice if it effects other people. Basically the entire premise of convincing new people to play eve is centered around creating people who you can potentially kill, rather than people who you can potentially ally and enjoy the game with together. The EvE veteran player base is incredibly selfish. Not only do they have a ton of knowledge through experience, they also want to limit the interactiveness new players can enjoy by shuffling them off to baby sitter corporations and boarding schools. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 05:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Storm Novah wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.
It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.
BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.
You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.
Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others? I understand your point but consider this: If someone excels in a particular area of Eve why shouldn't they be the ones to handle it. If you had a heart condition requiring surgery you wouldn't want your regular family physician to perform it now would you? No... you ask for a referral to a specialist that is more knowledgeable and more experienced at what you need to handle the situation. By referring new players to corps/alliances such as Eve Uni and Brave Newbies we are sending you to people who have not only the ability to train new players in the basics of Eve but they are far more experienced at it than say I would be. Sometimes I really don't get along well with others... that's normal... that's life. But because of that I know that I am not right for training other people. Sometimes there are still things that I don't even know. So should I subject a new player to my lack of experience when I can refer them to someone who can handle most if not all of the aspects of a game that I can't provide? They are by no means the absolute authorities on the game or on training new players... but they have the experience to help new players past/through some of the pitfalls that come with learning a game like Eve which is as complex as it is vast. We refer you to them so you WILL want to stay because you have been trained by the "specialists." As for the comment about them doing "the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor." Um... do you have any idea of the amount of work that the leaders of corps and alliances deal with to make them even remotely successful? I have been in the leadership of actively recruiting corps a few times... I would not wish that task on anyone ever. It can be an absolute nightmare with even the most experienced players. But to juggle all of that on top of being responsible for training new players in even the simplest of the games mechanics or gameplay just complicates it beyond belief. So why not use the available assets of the Eve community... they advertise as new player friendly and actively recruit new players. There are corps out there that won't hesitate to mess with new players by joining them to their corps and blowing them up in their ships etc. So go to the ones who are trusted and be thankful they are there and that they are so highly recommended. Because they are the BEST at what they do.
Wouldn't that new player be an additional potential benefit? The new player can call the attention of an enemy for like 15 seconds of his being focused, being 15 seconds someone of more importance is being neglected and able to do his job. Couldn't that new player be flying in a griffin or a blackbird and effectively shutting down critical targets ability to target your fleet for the amount of time he's remained to be allowed to live, with his time of destruction being counted towards his benefit of allowing those of more importance?
I understand that i would want the doctor to be the guy opening up my chest and operating on my heart. But I also understand that within that hospital, there is a guy who's job it is to make sure the air conditioner works, making it more comfortable for that doctor to do what it is he needs to do.
How are noobs suppose to feel as though their time spent in game is meaningful if the majority of the game is saying otherwise through it's action of not wanting to associate and play with them? |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
114
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 06:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Muestereate wrote:Please grant me a Google internship a San Francisco loft and a mentor hand picked by me. I just completed an hour of coding on Khan Academy and I know I have great potential.
Can you elaborate on what it is you're implying? I'd like to have your stance clearly stated before I delve into my comparison between choices in game and out. |
Divine Entervention
The Advent of Faith
Against ALL Anomalies
115
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 08:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Kaerf Arkanghel wrote:does this mean OP will be KOS by BNI? would be great. Not specifically; Im not in a position to make that decision for either BNI or the Brave Collective alliance as a whole. For my corp, I might set him bad standing if I remember, but I probably wont. I have no problem shooting neutrals anyhow, and neither do the rest of us. If he shows up out here, he's likely to get popped.
#affected |
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